Stuart Hameroff05 January 2026

#361 - Evidence of a Soul, NASA’s $1,000,000,000 Study & Awareness at Death

1Frameworks

15Insights

Episode overview

Anesthesiologist Stuart Hameroff explains how studying anesthesia led him to microtubules and, with Roger Penrose, to a quantum account of consciousness. He discusses OSIRIS-REx samples from Bennu, proposed time-crystal behavior in biology, near-death experiences, memory, psychedelics, artificial intelligence and parapsychology. The conversation closes with Hameroff's research into low-intensity ultrasound as a possible way to stabilize microtubules and improve cognition in Alzheimer's disease.

Key ideas

Hameroff argues that anesthesia suppresses consciousness through effects on neuronal microtubules while much membrane-level brain processing continues.
The Penrose-Hameroff account treats objective quantum-state reduction as producing moments of conscious experience rather than consciousness emerging from classical computation.
OSIRIS-REx returned 120 grams of carbonaceous material from Bennu, which Hameroff and collaborators hope to test for quantum oscillations and anesthetic sensitivity.
Hameroff proposes that near-death experiences may involve coherent activity and quantum information dissipating into spacetime while remaining entangled.
He argues that memory may be encoded in microtubule states, challenging accounts that locate durable memory primarily in short-lived synaptic proteins.
He distinguishes convincing behavioral simulation by AI from demonstrated consciousness and suggests biomimetic quantum systems may be more plausible conscious machines.
Preliminary and published work discussed in the episode links psychedelics with increased megahertz activity and anesthetics with suppression of microtubule-associated quantum effects.
Hameroff advocates further controlled research on low-intensity, unfocused ultrasound for Alzheimer's disease and other cognitive conditions.

Transcript available · source text is retained privately and is not published

Frameworks in this episode

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Low-Intensity Transcranial Ultrasound Protocol

Resonate memory-storing microtubules with cheap, unfocused ultrasound to lift mood and slow cognitive decline.

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People & resources mentioned

Attributed to the moment in the episode. Timestamps are approximate.

People · 45

Steen RasmussenMentionsSteen Rasmmanson who was at Los Alamos a nonlinear a chaos theory guy
“Steen Rasmmanson who was at Los Alamos a nonlinear a chaos theory guy”
▶ Watch at ~16:00approx.
Jack TuszynskiMentionsmentioned
“Jack Tusinsky and some other people and published a lot on on microtubrial information processing”
▶ Watch at ~16:00approx.
Ray KurzweilMentionsmentioned
“according to the singularity Ray Kerszswwell and all those guys”
▶ Watch at ~18:00approx.
David ChalmersCoinedthis later became known as the hard problem, uh, by philosopher David Chomers
“this later became known as the hard problem, uh, by philosopher David Chomers”
▶ Watch at ~19:30approx.
Roger PenroseCoinedRoger Penrose happens to be the world's expert on on what that actually looks like and what it does.
“a book by Roger Penrose called The Emperor's New Mind”
▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
Albert EinsteinCoinedmentioned
“he resorted to using Einstein's general relativity with space-time curvature”
▶ Watch at ~24:00approx.
Arthur EddingtonMentionsmentioned
“Edington and 1919 did, uh, went during an eclipse went to a mountaintop”
▶ Watch at ~25:00approx.
Susan SchneiderMentionsmy friend Susan Susan Schneider at uh Florida Atlantic University
“my friend Susan Susan Schneider at uh Florida Atlantic University”
▶ Watch at ~30:00approx.
Dante LaurettaMentionshe was in charge of a NASA probe that went to an asteroid and brought back these organic molecules
“I went into astrobiology with my colleague Dante Loretta looking for the origin of life”
▶ Watch at ~34:30approx.
Michael DrakeMentionsMike Drake, he was a professor at University of Arizona
“Mike Drake, he was a professor at University of Arizona.”
▶ Watch at ~35:00approx.
Frank WilczekCoinedFrank Wilchek who won a Nobel Prize
“they were hypothesized by uh uh Frank Wilchek who won a Nobel Prize”
▶ Watch at ~43:00approx.
Anirban BandyopadhyayMentionshe works in Japan at the National Institute of Material Sciences
“my colleague Honorban Bondapad over the last 15 years”
▶ Watch at ~43:30approx.
Cleve BacksterMentionsa former CIA analyst where he was uh he was a polygrapher
“Cleave Baxter, that's who it was.”
▶ Watch at ~45:00approx.
Rajnish KhannaMentionsmy friend uh Rajnish Khana is studying plants
“my friend uh Rajnish Khana is studying plants”
▶ Watch at ~45:30approx.
Blake LemoineMentionsthis guy at Google who thought that their classical computer was conscious
“Blake Leo. Yeah. Yeah.”
▶ Watch at ~50:30approx.
Robin Carhart-HarrisMentionsmentioned
“Robin Carheart Harris who's a famous”
▶ Watch at ~53:30approx.
Jeffrey KripalMentionsHe's a religious scholar.
“her story was written about by Jeffrey Kriple”
▶ Watch at ~1:00:00approx.
Daniel DennettCoinedmentioned
“this follows Dan Dennett's uh idea about multiple drafts”
▶ Watch at ~1:02:30approx.
Deepak ChopraMentionsmentioned
“I was at uh Deepac uh Deepak Chopra conference”
▶ Watch at ~1:07:00approx.
Anirban BandyopadhyayCoinedhe works in Japan at the National Institute of Material Sciences
“he developed something called brain jelly based on organic polymers”
▶ Watch at ~1:11:00approx.
Jim TuckerMentionsmentioned
“most Jim Tucker”
▶ Watch at ~1:14:00approx.
Karl PribramCoinedHe was a uh originally a neurosurgeon, neurosychologist
“there was a guy Carl Pram had a theory of this in the 70s”
▶ Watch at ~1:15:00approx.
Karl LashleyMentionsmentioned
“this guy Lashley had studied looked for memory engram in animals”
▶ Watch at ~1:15:30approx.
Ignacio Matte BlancoCoineda Chilean uh uh psychologist named uh Ignasio Mate Blanco
“a Chilean uh uh psychologist named uh Ignasio Mate Blanco who I don't know 30 40 years ago studied the logic of dreams”
▶ Watch at ~1:23:30approx.
Mark SolmsMentionsmentioned
“Mark SS is a big Neil Freudian.”
▶ Watch at ~1:25:00approx.
Roger PenroseMentionsRoger Penrose happens to be the world's expert on on what that actually looks like and what it does.
“Roger Penrose and I published that in 2014 as the origin of EEG”
▶ Watch at ~1:32:00approx.
Libby JarvikCoinedLibby Jarvik who was a uh neuros neurologist
“There was a paper by uh Matsuyama and Jarvik uh Libby Jarvik”
▶ Watch at ~1:39:00approx.
Robert JarvikCoinedRobert Jarvik who invented the first artificial heart
“Robert Jarvik who invented the first artificial heart”
▶ Watch at ~1:39:30approx.
Rudolph TanziMentionsa big Alzheimer's research at researcher at at Harvard
“I have a good friend Rudy Tanzy who's a big Alzheimer's research at researcher at at Harvard”
▶ Watch at ~1:41:00approx.
Jamie TylerMentionsJamie Tyler from Arizona State who had done all this work for years on animals
“Jamie Tyler from Arizona State who had done all this work for years on animals”
▶ Watch at ~1:49:30approx.
Jay SanguinettiMentionsmentioned
“a friend of mine, Jay Sanguinetti”
▶ Watch at ~1:51:30approx.
Sterling CooleyMentionshe's a ultrasound engineer
“this friend of mine Sterling Kulie is his name. He's uh he's a ultrasound engineer”
▶ Watch at ~1:56:30approx.
Helané WahbehMentionsHelena Wab was was the the researcher
“Helena Wab was was the the researcher.”
▶ Watch at ~1:59:30approx.
Peter DuesbergMentionsa guy at uh UCSF uh named Dooberg who was very controversial
“a guy at uh UCSF uh named Dooberg who was very controversial”
▶ Watch at ~2:04:00approx.
Edgar MitchellCoinedmentioned
“that was founded by Edgar Mitchell”
▶ Watch at ~2:09:00approx.
Diane Hennacy PowellMentionsmentioned
“Diana Hennessy. Yeah. She's going to be there.”
▶ Watch at ~2:14:30approx.
Dean RadinMentionsParapsychology researcher cited for discussing meta-analyses of large numbers of trials.
“Dean will tra Dean is traveling to our conference for the first time.”
▶ Watch at ~2:15:00approx.
Arnaud DelormeMentionsHe's a neuroscience. He works at ION.
“Arno Deloreum is the is the skeptic.”
▶ Watch at ~2:15:00approx.
Ky DickensCoinedthis is Kai Dickens. So, she's the one who directed the telepathy test.
“this is Kai Dickens. So, she's the one who directed the telepathy test.”
▶ Watch at ~2:18:30approx.
Jack SarfattiMentionsmentioned
“somebody I think it was Jack Sarfat who uh came up.”
▶ Watch at ~2:20:30approx.
Christopher BledsoeMentionsmentioned
“Christopher Bledso, he lives in um I think it's North Carolina”
▶ Watch at ~2:30:30approx.
Steven GreerMentionsmentioned
“Steven Greer”
▶ Watch at ~2:31:00approx.
Stuart HameroffMentionsResearcher associated with theories connecting neuronal microtubules to consciousness.
“Stuart thank you for doing this man. This has been a a fascinating conversation.”
▶ Watch at ~2:32:30approx.
Dante LaurettaMentionshe was in charge of a NASA probe that went to an asteroid and brought back these organic molecules
“I'm turning it over to my colleague Dante Loretta.”
▶ Watch at ~2:32:30approx.
Danny JonesMentionswe'll do this after the podcast. All right, that's all. Goodnight folks.
“Danny, you're welcome. It was a pleasure. Good questions. Good good conversation.”
▶ Watch at ~2:32:30approx.

Resources · 49

PrizePicksUsesproduct · PrizePicks
“What I like about Prize Pick is how simple it is.”
▶ Watch at ~14:00approx.
Los Alamos National LaboratoryMentionscompany
“Steen Rasmmanson who was at Los Alamos”
▶ Watch at ~16:00approx.
The Emperor's New MindUsesbook · Roger Penrose
“which I did. And, uh, he had a mechanism for consciousness based on a quantum mechanism”
▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
The Emperor's New MindRecommendsbook · Roger Penrose
“this person suggested I read a book by Roger Penrose called The Emperor's New Mind”
▶ Watch at ~20:00approx.
MandoUsesproduct · Lume Deodorant, LLC
“That's why I choose Mando.”
▶ Watch at ~27:30approx.
MandoRecommendsproduct · Lume Deodorant, LLC
“I highly recommend their bourbon leather flavor.”
▶ Watch at ~28:30approx.
Florida Atlantic UniversityMentionscompany
“my friend Susan Susan Schneider at uh Florida Atlantic University”
▶ Watch at ~30:00approx.
NASAMentionscompany
“They got a billion dollars from NASA.”
▶ Watch at ~35:00approx.
University of ArizonaMentionscompany
“Mike Drake, he was a professor at University of Arizona.”
▶ Watch at ~35:00approx.
BennuMentionsplace
“Benu was the asteroid”
▶ Watch at ~35:30approx.
OSIRIS-RExMentionsother · NASA
“Osiris Rex is the name of the probe”
▶ Watch at ~35:30approx.
OSIRIS-RExUsesother · NASA
“we're we're interested in looking for for uh signs of uh quantum oscillations in organic molecules”
▶ Watch at ~36:00approx.
Apollo 13Mentionsfilm
“It was kind of like, you know, that movie uh Apollo 13”
▶ Watch at ~39:30approx.
NASA TVUsestv show · NASA
“I watched it on NASA TV”
▶ Watch at ~39:30approx.
The Secret Life of PlantsMentionsbook
“The Secret Life of Plants was a book when I was in college.”
▶ Watch at ~45:00approx.
The Science of ConsciousnessMentionsevent
“he's going to present at our at our conference, the science of consciousness.”
▶ Watch at ~46:00approx.
GoogleMentionscompany · Larry Page and Sergey Brin
“this guy at Google who thought that their classical computer was conscious”
▶ Watch at ~50:00approx.
HerMentionsfilm
“Her.”
▶ Watch at ~50:30approx.
HerMentionsfilm
“That's such a good movie.”
▶ Watch at ~50:30approx.
New York UniversityMentionscompany
“to start a machine consciousness center at his NYU”
▶ Watch at ~51:00approx.
Dupe.comUseswebsite
“I copied the link into dupe.com and within seconds, it showed me a ton of options.”
▶ Watch at ~57:00approx.
National Institute for Materials ScienceMentionscompany
“he works in Japan at the National Institute of Material Sciences”
▶ Watch at ~1:10:30approx.
Brain jellyCoinedproduct · Anirban Bandyopadhyay
“he developed something called brain jelly based on organic polymers”
▶ Watch at ~1:11:00approx.
WillowMentionsproduct · Google
“they have the the Willow uh quantum computer”
▶ Watch at ~1:12:00approx.
University of VirginiaMentionscompany
“the the uh group at University of Virginia studies uh pediatric cases”
▶ Watch at ~1:13:30approx.
Star WarsMentionsfilm
“So remember Princess Leia in Star Wars”
▶ Watch at ~1:16:00approx.
DMT QuestMentionscompany
“I was working with a group called DMT Quest”
▶ Watch at ~1:18:00approx.
Templeton theories-of-consciousness projectMentionsevent
“We were in the Templeton project with theories of consciousness”
▶ Watch at ~1:32:00approx.
Princeton UniversityMentionscompany
“this was done at Princeton in a in a neutral lab”
▶ Watch at ~1:34:30approx.
Proceedings of the National Academy of SciencesMentionsnewsletter
“with a theory or with a paper in PNAS in in 1989”
▶ Watch at ~1:39:30approx.
Harvard UniversityMentionscompany
“Rudy Tanzy who's a big Alzheimer's research at researcher at at Harvard”
▶ Watch at ~1:41:00approx.
Epothilone BMentionsproduct
“a particular drug, Apothelone B, which is a a microtubial stabilizing drug”
▶ Watch at ~1:41:30approx.
IvermectinMentionsproduct
“Ivormectin. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Horse.”
▶ Watch at ~1:44:00approx.
Arizona State UniversityMentionscompany
“a guy at Arizona State University, our arch rival.”
▶ Watch at ~1:46:00approx.
Brain StimulationMentionsnewsletter
“published u in the journal a very good journal brain stimulation”
▶ Watch at ~1:49:30approx.
Transcranial magnetic stimulationMentionstool
“TMS transcranial magnetic stimulation transcranial electrical stimulation you can stimulate the brain but you can't focus it”
▶ Watch at ~1:50:00approx.
US Pro 2000Usesproduct
“US Pro 2000.”
▶ Watch at ~1:56:30approx.
ButterflyMentionsproduct
“Butterfly is expensive because you get imaging.”
▶ Watch at ~2:02:00approx.
US Pro 2000Usesproduct
“Yeah. Yeah, I have one. I uh I use it for jet lag, actually.”
▶ Watch at ~2:02:00approx.
University of California, San FranciscoMentionscompany
“a guy at uh UCSF uh named Dooberg”
▶ Watch at ~2:04:00approx.
Institute of Noetic SciencesCoinedcompany · Edgar Mitchell
“that was founded by Edgar Mitchell”
▶ Watch at ~2:09:00approx.
Institute of Noetic SciencesMentionscompany · Edgar Mitchell
“They've now merged with ions, the Institute for Netic Sciences”
▶ Watch at ~2:09:00approx.
California Institute for Human ScienceMentionscompany
“the place is called the California Institute for Human Sciences.”
▶ Watch at ~2:09:00approx.
The Telepathy TapesMentionspodcast · Ky Dickens
“there's these telepathy tapes that have come out with these non-verbal autistic children”
▶ Watch at ~2:13:30approx.
Secret Discoveries Behind the Iron CurtainMentionsbook
“I first read about in a book called uh secret discoveries behind the iron curtain”
▶ Watch at ~2:23:00approx.
Anesthesia & AnalgesiaMentionsnewsletter
“we published that in anesthesia analesia”
▶ Watch at ~2:25:30approx.
Esalen InstituteMentionsplace
“I went to this meeting at at Eselin in California”
▶ Watch at ~2:30:30approx.
The Science of ConsciousnessMentionsevent
“It'll be in Tucson, Arizona, April 6th through 11th.”
▶ Watch at ~2:32:30approx.
Tucson, ArizonaMentionsplace
“It'll be in Tucson, Arizona, April 6th through 11th.”
▶ Watch at ~2:32:30approx.

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Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 2

Myth Buster56:00

Near-Death Experiences Aren't Just Oxygen Deprivation

The standard skeptical explanation for near-death experiences is hypoxia, lack of oxygen to the brain. Hameroff pushes back: as an anesthesiologist who has treated plenty of hypoxic patients, he says hypoxia produces agitation and confusion, the opposite of the calm, serene reports typical of NDEs.

Hypoxic patients in clinical practice present as agitated and confused, not peaceful.
NDE reports are consistently calm and serene, across cultures and centuries.
The pattern isn't localized to one brain region either, undercutting a simple regional-damage explanation.

“in anesthesia we see a lot of patients get hypoxic... and they are not serene or calm. They're agitated and confused. And these people are…”
Stuart Hameroff · 56:30

#near-death experience#hypoxia#myth

Myth Buster1:09:00

Why Hameroff Thinks Cryonics Won't Preserve Your Consciousness

People paying to have their brains frozen for future revival are, per Hameroff, preserving the wrong structure. Current cryopreservation methods are optimized to protect cell membranes, not microtubules, and freezing destroys microtubules, which is exactly what his theory says consciousness and memory depend on.

At a 2014 conference session, a cryonics representative confirmed to Hameroff on record that their preservation method destroys microtubules.
Hameroff's blunt read: if consciousness lives in the microtubules, cryonics as currently practiced can't preserve it.
He notes the financial incentive for cryonics companies to not want this to be true.

“if you freeze the brain, you mess up the microtubules. You destroy them.”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:09:30

“our preservative destroys the microtubules. I said so if consciousness is in the microtubules you're out of luck.”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:10:00

#cryonics#microtubules#myth

Hot Take· 2

Hot Take48:00

Hameroff's Case for Why Today's AI Isn't Conscious

Hameroff dismisses viral stories of LLMs 'threatening blackmail' or engineers falling for chatbot sentience, citing the Google engineer fired over claiming LaMDA was conscious, as unproven and likely overstated. His core argument: consciousness requires quantum effects that today's classical, silicon-based computers structurally can't produce, no matter how convincing the Turing test performance.

References the Blake Lemoine/Google LaMDA story as a cautionary tale of mistaking convincing outputs for consciousness.
Argues the Turing test is 'overrated' and has already been passed without proving machine consciousness.
Even David Chalmers, who coined the 'hard problem' of consciousness, has since taken AI funding to study machine consciousness, which Hameroff sees as undercutting his own earlier thesis.
His prediction: an AI could become behaviorally indistinguishable from a conscious human while still not actually being conscious, because it lacks the biological substrate (aromatic-ring quantum effects in microtubules) his theory says consciousness requires.

“consciousness is more like music than computation and the brain is more like an orchestra... than it is a computer”
Stuart Hameroff · 48:30

“how do you know it's conscious? We don't.”
Danny Jones and Stuart Hameroff · 53:00

#ai#consciousness#turing test#llm

Hot Take1:35:30

Why Hameroff Thinks Alzheimer's Research Chased the Wrong Target for 35 Years

Hameroff argues the amyloid-plaque theory of Alzheimer's became dominant in the late 1980s largely because it was patentable and fundable, while a competing 1989 paper linking the disease to breakdown of tau-stabilized microtubules got sidelined. He says post-mortem studies correlate dementia severity far better with tau tangles than amyloid plaques, and that today's anti-amyloid drugs are expensive, largely ineffective, and carry serious side effects.

A 1989 paper (Matsuyama and Jarvik) proposed microtubule breakdown as the key Alzheimer's mechanism, around the same time the amyloid theory took hold; drug companies backed amyloid instead.
Post-mortem correlation is stronger for tau tangles than for amyloid plaques: some patients have amyloid without disease, or disease without amyloid.
Modern anti-amyloid drugs cost $20-30k per patient per year, cause bleeding, and don't reliably work, per Hameroff.
Epothilone B, an off-patent, microtubule-stabilizing cancer drug, showed promise for Alzheimer's in a pilot study that was abruptly discontinued and never republished, which Hameroff finds suspicious given it can't be newly patented.

“amyloid plaques, I think, are a red herring... they don't really correlate with disease, but they attract all the money and the attention.”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:40:30

“it's off patent... there's no way to make money off of this. So they didn't want it.”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:43:00

#alzheimer's#amyloid#tau#pharma

Explainer· 8

Explainer00:00

Anesthesia Doesn't Work Where Scientists Thought It Did

For decades the assumption was that anesthesia acts on neuron membrane receptors and ion channels. Hameroff explains that those membrane systems keep functioning under anesthesia — sensory signals still pass through an unconscious patient during spinal surgery — which means anesthesia must be acting somewhere else: inside the neuron, on the microtubules that make up its cytoskeleton.

Anesthetic molecules are chemically different from each other but all do the same narrow thing: they turn off consciousness while leaving most brain activity intact.
During spinal surgery, unconscious patients' 'sensory evoked potentials' still register, proof membrane receptors keep working under anesthesia.
This ruled out the mainstream membrane-receptor theory and pointed at microtubules instead.
Microtubules depolymerize (fall apart) under excess anesthesia, first observed in the 1970s.

“anesthesia acts on microtubules, not on neuronal membrane receptors like most people think”
Stuart Hameroff · 02:00

“the membrane receptors and ion channels continue to work but the patient can be unconscious... there are these structures called microtubules... that's where they act”
Stuart Hameroff · 06:00

#anesthesia#microtubules#neuroscience

Explainer19:30

The Penrose-Hameroff Theory: Consciousness as Quantum Collapse

Hameroff walks through how a 1990s conversation with Roger Penrose turned into Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch-OR), the idea that consciousness isn't computation but a physical event: quantum superpositions inside microtubules reaching a mass-energy threshold and collapsing, producing a discrete 'moment' of experience roughly 10 million times per second.

Penrose used Gödel's incompleteness theorem to argue consciousness can't be pure computation, since understanding has to sit outside the system being computed.
Objective reduction: quantum superpositions collapse spontaneously once they hit a threshold tied to Einstein's spacetime curvature, not because an observer measures them.
Each collapse event produces a flicker of proto-conscious experience; Hameroff estimates about 10 million such events per second in a human brain.
The theory was ridiculed for combining two 'mysteries' (quantum mechanics and consciousness), but Hameroff argues Occam's razor favors one unified explanation over two separate ones.

“there must be a quantum explanation for consciousness”
Stuart Hameroff · 20:30

“consciousness like mass, spin, charge and a bunch of cosmological constants are intrinsic to the universe”
Stuart Hameroff · 29:30

#orch-or#quantum consciousness#roger penrose#physics

Explainer58:30

What Happens on an EEG in the Moments After the Heart Stops

Hameroff describes brain-monitoring data from ICU patients and organ donors withdrawing life support: after the heart stops and the EEG goes flat, there's a burst of highly coherent, ultra-high-frequency gamma activity lasting seconds to a couple of minutes, a plausible neural signature of the near-death experience.

EEG goes flat when blood pressure drops to near zero after cardiac arrest.
A burst of high-gamma, highly coherent activity follows, lasting seconds up to a couple of minutes, then disappears.
This was recorded in transplant donors and ICU patients withdrawing support, not in people who survived to report an NDE, so it's a correlate, not direct proof.
Hameroff proposes that at death, the quantum information in microtubules 'leaks' into spacetime but stays entangled, like a distributed, holographic 'quantum soul.'

“there's this burst of activity lasting from seconds to a couple minutes that looks like high gamma... and it's very coherent”
Stuart Hameroff · 59:00

“it stays entangled... distributed maybe holographically in the universe but remaining entangled as a... quantum soul”
Stuart Hameroff · 55:30

#near-death experience#eeg#death#quantum soul

Explainer43:30

Why Hameroff Thinks Plants Might Be (Slightly) Conscious

Plants have microtubules, and anesthesia works on plants too. Hameroff and colleagues can anesthetize a Venus flytrap so it won't respond to a bug, or block a sunflower from tracking the sun. He argues this points to a very slow, very simple form of plant consciousness, at a tiny fraction of the 'conscious moments per second' of a human brain.

Anesthesia blocks a Venus flytrap's response to prey and stops sunflowers tracking the sun.
Humans may have roughly 10 million Orch-OR 'collapse' events per second; Hameroff estimates a plant might have only a couple per second.
Single-cell organisms like paramecia show surprisingly sophisticated behavior, avoiding predators, finding food and mates, learning, despite having no neurons at all.
Cleve Baxter's famous 1960s polygraph-on-a-plant experiments (The Secret Life of Plants) are referenced as an earlier, scientifically rejected version of this idea.

“anesthesia works on plants, right? Yes, it does. And plants have microtubules.”
Danny Jones and Stuart Hameroff · 43:30

“we're 100 million times more conscious than a plant”
Stuart Hameroff · 44:00

#plants#consciousness#anesthesia#biology

Explainer1:00:30

Why Time Seems to Slow Down in a Car Crash or a Flow State

Hameroff offers a mechanism for the common report that time slows down during accidents or peak athletic performance: if consciousness is a sequence of discrete Orch-OR 'collapse' moments, then speeding up the rate of those moments, more conscious moments per second, makes the external world seem to slow down by comparison.

Athletes and performers in flow describe the outside world slowing down; Hameroff attributes this to their conscious 'frame rate' increasing, not the world actually slowing.
Time does not register at all under general anesthesia; patients report zero subjective duration, unlike normal sleep where you can roughly estimate elapsed time.
The same mechanism is offered for reaction-time feats like hitting a 95mph fastball or a 150mph tennis serve.

“they're having more conscious moments per second... the result is that the external world, their perceived world slows down”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:00:30

“Time does not pass under anesthesia which is a very interesting thing”
Stuart Hameroff · 07:00

#flow state#time perception#consciousness

Explainer1:02:00

Hameroff's Fix for the Free-Will Timing Problem

Neuroscience has long noted that brain activity for a decision can be measured before a person becomes consciously aware of making it, suggesting free will is an illusion. Hameroff proposes a 'backward-in-time' effect within Orch-OR that lets the eventual conscious decision retroactively influence the real-time action, which he argues is necessary for feats like hitting a fastball and would be evolutionarily favored.

The standard 'multiple drafts' neuroscience view (per Daniel Dennett) says conscious awareness of a decision comes after the unconscious brain has already acted, making free will a post-hoc illusion.
Hameroff proposes the conscious conclusion is referred backward in time to the moment of decision, preserving real-time control.
He frames this as evolutionarily advantageous: in a predator-prey relationship, whichever organism effectively gets 'hints from the future' wins.

“this backward time is probably necessary for real-time conscious control and free will”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:03:00

#free will#neuroscience#time

Explainer1:03:30

The 'Quantum Pleasure Principle': Hameroff's Theory of How Life Began

Hameroff's 2017 paper proposes that conscious feeling predates genes: aromatic-ring molecules in the primordial soup began experiencing primitive Orch-OR 'pleasure' moments, and molecules that arranged themselves to increase pleasure were favored, kickstarting life roughly 100 million years before genes existed.

Hameroff argues life existed for about 100 million years before genes, driven by molecular self-organization rather than genetic replication.
Aromatic carbon rings, like those in dopamine, produce the quantum electron-cloud effects his theory says are needed for Orch-OR collapse events.
He connects this directly to modern behavior: essentially all animal behavior, including delayed gratification, ultimately optimizes for feeling better later.

“I think conscious feelings were there right from the start... I call this the quantum pleasure principle”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:03:30

#origin of life#dopamine#evolution#consciousness

Explainer1:15:00

Is Consciousness a Hologram Stored in the Brain?

Hameroff revisits Karl Pribram's 1970s holographic-brain theory, once dismissed for lacking a 'laser' in the brain. Hameroff argues microtubules serve that role, projecting information as interfering optical and magnetic patterns that could explain how a damaged brain retains distributed, redundant memory.

Early 20th-century researcher Lashley spent 30 years trying and failing to locate a single physical 'memory engram' by selectively damaging animal brains; memory proved to be distributed everywhere.
Pribram proposed the brain stores information like a hologram: two-dimensional interference patterns that reconstruct a full three-dimensional image when 'read,' but was criticized for having no laser-equivalent in the brain.
Hameroff's collaborator Bandyopadhyay has shown microtubules project 3D optical and magnetic vortices that can interfere, potentially supplying that missing 'laser.'

“there's no laser in the brain, Carl... I said well yeah it's microtubules that's his laser”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:16:30

#hologram#memory#karl pribram#microtubules

Story· 3

Story1:13:30

The University of Virginia's Decades-Long Study of Kids Who 'Remember' Past Lives

Hameroff cites the long-running University of Virginia research program, started under an earlier researcher and later led by Jim Tucker, documenting children with detailed apparent memories of previous lives, often accompanied by birthmarks or physical traits matching the reported cause of death.

Cases often include birthmarks or trauma signs matching how the 'previous person' reportedly died.
The line of researchers runs from an original investigator through Jim Tucker to current successors at UVA.
Danny raises a secondary theory: most of the children recalling past lives were male, possibly because males historically died more traumatic deaths, and trauma imprints memory more strongly.

“there's some pretty good evidence for reincarnation actually... they have birth marks or signs of trauma from what caused their death.”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:13:30

#reincarnation#university of virginia#children

Story1:25:30

Heart Transplant Patients Inheriting the Donor's Habits

Two anecdotes about heart-transplant recipients apparently picking up personality traits or cravings from their donors: a woman who suddenly craved McDonald's fries after receiving a heart from a child who died waiting in a McDonald's drive-thru, and a man who took up dancing after receiving a heart from a lifelong dancer. Hameroff connects it to the heart's own dense network of microtubule-rich nerve ganglia.

The heart contains one of the body's largest non-nervous-system concentrations of nerve ganglia and microtubules, via the AV node.
Transplant surgeons historically weren't allowed to disclose donor details to recipients, making the pattern-matching (fries, dancing) hard to dismiss as suggestion.
Hameroff frames this as indirect support for memory being stored in microtubules rather than only in synapses.

“she got the heart from a child who was in the waiting in the drive-thru at a McDonald's.”
Danny Jones · 1:26:00

“this guy who never danced before in his life all of a sudden crave dancing... the donor had been a big dancer.”
Stuart Hameroff · 1:26:30

#organ transplant#cellular memory#microtubules

Story2:18:00

The UFO 'Plasmoids' That Move Without Propulsion

Hameroff describes a category of UAP sightings called plasmoids, ball-lightning-like orbs that appear to move intelligently (playing tag, hide-and-seek) with no visible propulsion or heat trail. He and physicist Jack Sarfatti speculate the movement could involve manipulating spacetime curvature directly, which would tie the phenomenon back to his quantum-gravity theory of consciousness. Danny recounts personally filming similar orbs on a Florida beach with a source who claims to summon them.

Plasmoids reportedly appear, move, and vanish with no vapor trail or heat signature, ruling out conventional propulsion.
Physicist Jack Sarfatti's hypothesis: if they can curve spacetime to move, that's the same mechanism Penrose ties to consciousness, meaning they could, in principle, be conscious.
Danny describes a two-hour beach stakeout with low-light binoculars where two separate orbs rose from the horizon, moved, and 'fizzled out,' captured on camera.
References a peer-reviewed paper co-authored by a University of Arizona planetary scientist documenting the phenomenon without claiming consciousness.

“there's no propulsion... if you could curve spacetime and create a hole, you're going to fall through the hole”
Stuart Hameroff · 2:21:30

“another one popped up and went slowly to the right and then fizzled out. And it was like the closest thing I could relate it…”
Danny Jones · 2:28:00

#ufo#plasmoids#quantum gravity#consciousness